Gary Ayton's camping and photography wiki

User Tools

Site Tools

Trace: • hot tents (tents with wood stoves inside), bell tents, yurts and tipi tents
australia:tents_hot

Table of Contents

hot tents (tents with wood stoves inside), bell tents, yurts and tipi tents

see also:

  • I don't sell any of these nor do I receive any remuneration if you buy them, and I have not personally reviewed all of them, they are listed here to give you perspective
  • the response from AI app ChatGPT Jan 2023 on the best type of hot tent for winter camping is:
    • “For winter camping, the best type of hot tent is one made with high-quality materials and is designed for extreme weather conditions. The tent should have a sturdy frame and be made of a waterproof and windproof material to keep you warm and dry. Some popular options include canvas tents with a stove jack for a wood stove and tents made from a synthetic material that is designed to insulate well and resist condensation. It is also recommended to choose a tent that has enough room for sleeping and gear storage, as well as ventilation to prevent overheating.”
    • and response for “Should this be a tipi style or bell tent style?”
      • “For winter camping, a tipi style hot tent is usually a better option compared to a bell tent style. Tipi tents are known for their high ceiling, which provides more interior space and helps prevent condensation. They also have a cone-shaped design that sheds snow and wind more effectively, making them better suited for harsh winter conditions. Bell tents, on the other hand, have a more vertical design that can allow more snow to accumulate on the roof, potentially compromising the tent's stability. Both tipi and bell tents can have stove jacks for a wood stove, but a tipi is typically considered more efficient for winter camping.”

Introduction

  • these are particularly popular in the Nth Hemisphere for camping in sub-zero / snow conditions
  • they are generally NOT freestanding but need to be pegged down to erect
  • they need have an opening “stove jack” for a chimney flue which has fire resistant flashing
  • the chimney flue will need to have a double or triple shield to reduce risk of nearby tent material burning
  • there must be adequate ventilation at all times and you should have a carbon monoxide alarm as an extra precaution
  • although polycotton material is at least 40% heavier than nylon, it has significant advantages for a hot tent in snow:
    • more fire retardant
    • easier to repair by stitching
    • more breathable with reduced hoarfrost building up on the inside
  • a Nordic tipi style is perhaps the best for hot tent in the snow or on polar ice sheets:
    • easier to set up in strong winds as you peg it down first before there is any need to elevate it
    • steep sides allow snow to fall off
    • allows centrally placed stove away from tent wall and stove jack is higher and thus less hot
    • more resistant to changes in wind directions than most other designs apart from geodesic
    • central height allows standing
    • gear can be stored around the edges and sleeping mats towards the middle
    • wet gear can be hung from the top sections of the centre pole to dry out over the stove
    • has a nicer ambience than most other tent designs which can be very important psychologically
    • most allow a 2P tent to be able to be set up inside if desired
  • Bell tent style
    • these are popular for glamping as they add some extra amenity to the tipi style
    • essentially they are tipi tents sitting on vertical canvas walls
    • the vertical walls allow:
      • extra standing head space
      • better use of the peripheral otherwise angled part as the tipi hits the ground
      • they generally incorporate meshed windows for added ventilation options and ground level visibility
  • you probably do NOT need a HOT tent in Australia UNLESS you plan on camping:
    • in the snow or inland in winter when temperatures fall below 5 deg C
      • no floor needed and most probably won't need to use a insect protecting mesh inner tent as there are few insects around
    • in cool/cold conditions with prolonged persistent rain (not sure why you would plan to do this!)
      • stove makes a great option then for keeping warm, drying out clothes and cooking and hopefully you have a tent at least 3m diameter and 2m tall to allow some amenity
      • you will need a inner mesh tent with waterproof tub floor, or, a stretcher bed to keep you off the ground
      • you will need silicone flashing for the chimney exiting the stove jack to reduce rain entering the tent
    • and you love to cook inside the tent despite poor weather
  • most will be better off with other safer methods of keeping warm when camping or hiking
  • pros
    • sheltered space to cook when its windy and cold
    • security - stove is less likely to be stolen if its inside the tent
    • ability to dry off clothes, boots
    • extreme cold camping in snow is more pleasurable
    • solo trip where you want to read a book in winter
    • air you breathe is warmer - if you wake up to keep the fire going all night
  • cons
    • wood stoves for camping CAN be a real pain even outside the tent and you do need a supply of small dry seasoned wood
    • the tents and stove are substantially heavier than cold tenting - but not so bad if car camping or you have a sled on snow
    • they are a lot more work than cold tenting especially in setting up:
      • site selection, flat level stove site so chimney is vertical, and if on snow, the snow will melt
      • gathering and cutting fire wood into smaller than usual sizes
      • stove requires constant attention and babysitting - you need to add wood every 1.5-2hrs else you wake up in a cold tent and need major adjustments
    • they are more expensive than cold tenting
    • risk of fire and carbon monoxide

Risks of a stove inside a tent

  • carbon monoxide poisoning
    • stove must be enclosed with a chimney that exits the tent however even with this, a strong wind or a blocked chimney may result in carbon monoxide entering the tent
      • keep your chimney pipes clean inside to remove any creosote build up
      • keep damper door open
      • preferably one person should remain awake at all times to keep watch
    • the tent MUST be well ventilated (ie. open windows or doors)
    • you should preferably have a carbon monoxide alarm in the tent
  • tent catches on fire
    • this should not happen with a:
      • proper stove properly fitted to the tent with double or triple wall chimney pipes, etc
      • tent should of the design such that the stove is well away from the tent walls - a teepee style tent with a central stove is the optimum for this and also allows the stove jack to be at a higher position with a somewhat cooler chimney segment passing through
      • stove sitting on a large enough fireproof blanket, or preferably on bare ground - the tent should NOT have a floor under the stove
      • care not to knock it over, in strong winds, guy out the chimney for extra safety
      • spark arrester securely fitted to chimney - although you still may get the occasional ember hole on your tent fly
      • fire retardant tent or at least the stove jack must be fire retardant and adjacent tent material must not be allowed to touch a hot chimney
    • as extra precautions:
      • have a fire extinguisher
      • sleep with a knife to slash your way out of the tent if your only exit is blocked
      • choose a tent with two doors to exit from and leave them open
      • sleep with an aramid/wool fire blanket - won't catch fire, won't melt, protects from embers, can use it to wrap around you to put flames out or prevent heat injury or melting tent thermal injury
        • also can be used in your car to cover you if caught in a bush fire (stay below level of windows though)
  • 3rd degree burns from contact with the stove
    • ensure there is 1.2m walking space around the stove
    • don't get drunk
    • don't have trip hazards
    • use fireguards if children or pets are around - better still, don't have kids around
    • use heat protective gloves when accessing the stove
    • don't place stove in walking path to an exit
  • you get too hot inside the tent
    • then you get sweaty and can get cold when you put the fire out
    • commonly for a 2 person tent in the snow, the ceiling air will be well over 30degC while the stove is running
  • increased condensation risk inside tent
    • once the fire is out and the temperature drops, the air is no longer able to hold the same amount of water vapour from your breathing as before and this results in condensation in tents unless you take measures against this
  • tendency to spend more time inside the tent than enjoying the outdoors with others around a campfire
  • all tents are flammable, some less so than others
    • example heat sources
      • naked flames are generally 910°C (candle), 1920°C (alcohol), 2200°C (butane)
      • a stove chimney can easily be over 300°C near the stove
      • glowing smoldering combustion (embers) may reach up to 600°C
      • an incandescent globe reaches 100-300°C
      • a tungsten halogen globe reaches 600-900°C which is the same as a lit match!
    • “fireproof mats” are designed to minimise damage from transient contact with embers but they generally do little to stop radiant heat to materials beneath if embers are not dealt with quickly
      • carbon fiber with aluminum foil can withstand up to 400°C
      • fiberglass with heat-resistant silicone coating can withstand up to 250℃
    • flammability of various materials
      • for comparison, paper ignites at 218-246degC depending on thickness, moisture content, etc (cardboard is ~426degC), and paper will spontaneously combust at ~250degC
      • certain synthetic fibers are extremely flame resistant, including glass fibers (fibreglass) and modacrylic
      • wool and silk burn slowly, are difficult to ignite (ignition point for wool is 230°C), and may self-extinguish
      • leather ignites at 212°C
      • rubber ignites at 260-316°C
      • ignition and burn factors of fabric are also affected by the weight and weave of the fabric
      • the flammability of fabric can be drastically reduced through the use of fire retardants
        • cotton can be topically treated with a chemical that reduces the fabric’s flammability to the extent that it becomes nearly non-combustible
        • polyester can be similarly treated to make it “durably fire retardant”
        • these fabrics must be dry-cleaned with a non-liquid cleaning agent and the duration of fire retardant ability depends on age and number of times dry cleaned
      • polyethylene is much more flammable than PVC or polyester
        • polyethylene melts at 85-140°C, has a flash point of 341°C and auto-ignites at 330-410°C
      • PVC starts distorting at 60°C and starts to degrade at 70°C releasing HCl, and melts at 75-110°C but ignition point is 435-557°C
      • nylon, polyester and acrylic fabrics tend to be slow to ignite but once ignited, severe melting and dripping occurs
        • acrylic melts at 91-125°C and ignites at 560°C
        • nylon melts at 160-275°C and ignites at 424-532°C depending on type of nylon
        • polyester (aka polyethylene terephthalate or PET) requires more heat to burn than most fabrics (particularly cotton or linen but also other synthetic fibers) and when it does finally burn, it usually melts and may self-extinguish
        • polyester starts to melt at 220°C (one of the highest melting points for synthetics) and tends to pull away from a heat source, it will ignite at ~440°C (eg. direct flame although it is regarded as relatively fire resistant to flames)
        • molten polyester can cause far more severe burns to the skin than a fabric that burns away
        • if polyester does burn, the fumes that it releases are likely to be toxic
        • special Trevira™ and Avora™ polyester fibers are considered inherently or permanently fire retardant
      • normal cotton fabric burns readily and can ignite quickly (ignition point 250°C), resulting in a fast moving flame spread
      • polyester-cotton is generally MORE flammable than cotton as the molten polyester tends to wick on the cotton char, resulting in the phenomenon of scaffolding and thus it may actually burn faster than either material alone unless a fire retardant is added
      • polycarbonates melt at 140-150°C and ignite at 580°C
  • you can install a flashing kit permanently anywhere suitable on your tent by making a large enough hole in the tent so the tent material is well away from the stove chimney, when chimney is not being used, unscrew the flashing kit and install the circular flat metal rain guard.
  • if you have a Winnerwell Nomad wood camping stoves and you want to use the pipe oven, the tent's flue opening needs to be high enough (at least 1.2m high) to accommodate this and that may require it to be more central than peripheral
  • chimney must extend at least 1m higher than the tent's flue opening and at least 60cm higher that the highest point of the tent
  • the stove must be more than 1.2m from any flammable material (1.5m clearance above the stove)
  • tent must be ventilated by at least a 0.5m2 opening (however tent must be fully open when starting fire as there will be a lot of smoke from low temperature combustion!) and air flow controller on stove must be fully open to minimise carbon monoxide re-entering tent
  • must check chimney and spark arrestor daily to ensure no creosote build up otherwise risk of chimney fire or carbon monoxide issues
  • if there is the possibility of strong winds, you must attach non-flammable guy ropes to the chimney to stabilise it - NO, you can't do this once the fire is burning!
  • DO NOT LEAVE IT UNATTENDED
    • someone MUST be awake at all times while it is burning - if the tent is closed ,it will consume oxygen and there is a risk of carbon monoxide poisoning and of course, there is a risk of fire.
    • ie. you MUST stay awake until the fire is out!
  • CONSIDER a kerosene heater for when the wood stove goes out to keep you warm for longer
    • YOU will need to optimise air flow to keep it ventilated BUT avoid strong winds or strong drafts and it must be > 1m away from flammable material AND it should be turned OFF before going to sleep!
  • a 2600W paraffin/kerosene heater stove on full output will use 250mL paraffin/kerosene per hour and maintain a OneTigris Rock Fortress Tent with doors closed but some ventilation at around 20degC when outside temperatures are minus 1-2degC - see Youtube and when on full output, they are smokeless, tasteless, and allegedly safe - no carbon monoxide issues noted but ensure you do have an alarm and meter!
    • these designed for indoor use to heat 18 sq.m are 32.5×32.5x45cm and weigh ~5kg empty and can hold just over 5L kerosene which should give 18hrs heating on full.
    • the protective cover on top can be removed to allow use as a stove to boil water.
    • kerosene is $AU22/4L which means $1.40 per hr
    • WARNING: whilst most kerosene heaters are designed for homes, they do need some ventilation as they use oxygen and do produce some CO (especially if oxygen levels are running low such as in small enclosed spaces) and they do produce a LOT of water vapour (just over 1L water vapour for every 1L kerosene burnt!). They should be lit outside until the initial odour is gone and they NEED wick maintenance.
  • or, a LPG/butane gas stove/heater with the doors open
    • a small 2000W one weighs 550g, is 12x20cm and uses 100g/hr LPG or 80g/hr butane and designed to heat 5 sq.m
  • or an LPG or propane radiant heater with the doors open
    • Companion LPG 3.6kg heater gives max 10,800 BTU/hr = 3200W
    • Gasmate 5kg heater gives max. 13.5MJ/h = 3750W and uses 265g/h LPG
  • or if you want the tent closed, you can pump hot air into it:
    • but perhaps NOT with the underpowered Companion AeroHeat Lithium Tent Heater has a 4hr 12V Li battery using 60W power for the fan and a 600W gas air heater via 468g propane cartridge will last 9hrs or can use LPG

polycotton or terylene/cotton T/C canvas tents

  • these are the optimum tents as canvas is much less flammable and more breathable than lightweight nylon / polyester tents but they are heavy!
  • Tentipi Safir
    • 5 cp model
    • octagonal 285g/m2 polycotton with DWR coating to allow water runoff and with a PU polyester skirt area; 5 guy out points; 1 door;
    • range of improvements over the mid-level Zirkon model such as 3 ground level meshed ventilation ports, door has a 2nd zipper to reveal a meshed segment; opt. velcro attachable awning for door
    • 2.3m tall x 3.8m wide, 9.4kg (+2.5 for opt. inner mesh tent), packs to 56x25cm 1750 Euro;
    • set up using a centre peg and string guide to show where to place the 8 pegs before laying out the tent and inserting the centre pole
    • see Youtube detailed review and set up with the optional pro floor which adds another 1.3kg and extra 430Euro - his measured 3.5m diam x 2.06m tall with usable height 1.67m so it is a bit too small for a family and the next size up (7 cp model) may be better especially if you use a stove and have kids.
  • Tentipi Zirkon
    • Swedish company
    • door and both the top and bottom vents have mosquito net; large vent at top with controllable venting; hanging loop for drying clothes;
    • optional removable floor and optional inner mesh tent
    • 5 cp model
      • 2.3m tall x 3.8m wide, 9kg (+2.3 for opt. inner mesh tent), packs to 56x24cm
    • also have 4.5m, 5.3m and 6m diameter models (6m model is 21.7kg)
    • 9 cp model
      • 5.3m diam x 3.1m tall; 14.6kg; packs to 28x70cm; $US2000; +$US495 for floor;
  • Homecamp Classic Bell tent
  • Homecamp Tipi tent
  • Karma Canvas Bell Hot Tents (northern NSW company)
  • MC poly-cotton canvas
    • 3000mm floor but tent itself is NOT waterproof
    • Amazon
  • OneTigris T/C tents
  • Pomoly hot tents
  • Pomoly YARN Plus Canvas Hot Tent with Wood Stove Jack 2-4 Person
    • 70% cotton, 30% polyester 1500mm; two doors; 6 sides; skirted; Removable Top Cap;
    • 2.6m tall; each side is 2.1m long giving diam. 4.2m x 3.64m; 8.2kg; packs to 24.8 x 5.9 x 5.9 in
    • optional inner tent: half tent 1.4kg; full tent 2kg;
    • $US
  • Gonex TC hot tent
    • hexagonal tipi with awning type door; 3m diam x 1.8m tall; half inner mesh tent; 7kg; guy outs are quite high;
  • Psyclone Bell tents (Australian):
  • Chinese Ebay Australia bell tents
    • 300gsm PU coated polycotton canvas; zippered 540gsm pvc ground sheet.
    • two doors - one with mesh as with 4 ground level 60x30cm windows and 4 vents at apex
    • floor and the 60cm vertical walls are all removable it seems
    • 4m diam: doors 1.8W x 1.5m H with 19mm aluminium A-frame poles; wall 60cm high; centre pole 32mm x 2.5m high; packs to 95x35x35cm; 28kg; $AU719
    • 5m diam: doors 2W x 1.7m H with 22mm aluminium A-frame poles; wall 60cm high; centre pole 32mm x 3m high; packs to 95x35x35cm; 38kg; $AU819
    • 6m diam: doors 2W x 1.8m H with 22mm aluminium A-frame poles; wall 60cm high; centre pole 38mm x 3.5m high; packs to 95x39x39cm; 48kg; $AU999
    • opt. polycotton canvas fly: 4m: $AU289
    • opt. stove jack

modular low profile stealth bell Arctic hot tents

  • Savotta Hawu 8 Tent
    • made in Finland/Estonia;
    • fabric is fire retardant, breathable, waterproof 30% PPAN (plasma polymerized acrylonitrile / modacrylic), 30% CLY (Lyocell semi-synthetic cellulose), 40% PVA (polyvinyl alcohol) - 290g/m2
      • fibers in the fabric swell up when moist to provide an effective seal against rain without the need for waterproof and poorly breathable coatings
    • can set up around a tree without need for the optional centre pole and giving aerial coverage from the canopy (if the branches don't fall on you), or, it can be hung from a line of rope attached between two trees.
    • modules (each module could be set up by itself with a pole - two for the extension piece alone):
      • Hawu 8 Door Piece 6kg $AU1865 the door allows you to step down into the tent, instead of having to crawl under a low side entrance, an internal free hanging wall keeps the warm air from escaping from inside the tent when the zippered door is open and a steel stove pipe port with a hinged cover is located between the door and tip of the front piece; peak can be opened or closed; In addition there are two zippers from the apex which enable a rapid exit or to open up that segment; Used alone it forms an open half bell tent;
      • Hawu 8 Wall piece 5kg $AU1465
      • Hawu 8 extension piece 4.5kg $AU1465
      • telescopic centre pole 70cm to 184cm 1.4kg $AU155
      • FDF10 ground sheet 4x4m octagonal 600D polyester 6.5kg $AU475
    • Door + Wall gives 4m diam octagon and 1.7m high and 13sqm floor space
    • additional extension gives 5.5m x 4m x 1.7m high and 19sqm floor space
    • if you want two doors looks like you can buy two of them instead of a wall piece but tat adds to price and an extra 1kg
    • optional groundsheet, telescopic centre pole, pegs
    • https://www.survivalsuppliesaustralia.com.au/Savotta-Hawu-8-Tent

insulated winter ice fishing tents

Vertical wall tents

  • these offer the maximum head room to walk around in but may not shed snow as well
  • RBM Outdoors All-Season Premium Outfitter Pentagon Wall Tent with Stove Jack
    • summer and winter capability for 3-5 people
    • 3.5m from a corner to opposite wall; 2.06m tall;
    • packs to 78.74” х 11.81” х 11.81” 68lbs / 31kg;
    • outer awning Oxford 300 PU 4000; inner layer Oxford 210 PU 2000;
    • 2 entrances each with 3 layers - outer awning, mosquito net and inner awning
    • four 5-layer windows for ventilation as for door but plus a frost-resistant clear PVC layer
    • detachable floor zips to inner layer above ground level (optional heat-insulated 3-layer floor prevents snow melting beneath the tent from the stove and keeps the tent interior warm extra $US499)
    • $US2169
    • see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By9jy3xlGmY

Mid-weight 4 season nylon tents

  • Tentipi Zirkon 5 Light
    • Swedish company
    • mid-level Nordic tipi style; 1 door; ground tensioners; 85g/m2 double silnylon ripstop polyamide red model
    • 2.3m tall x 3.8m wide; 4.9kg (+2.3 for opt. inner mesh tent), packs to 56x20cm; opt. removable floor; optional porch; opt. centre pole drying rail;
    • $US1327 https://www.mansfieldoutdoors.com/zirkon-tents/
  • Tentipi Onyx 5 Light
    • entry level Nordic tipi style; 1 door; no ground tensioners; 80g/m2 grey ripstop PU polyamide
    • 2.3m tall x 3.8m wide; 3.6kg (+1.8 for opt. inner mesh tent), packs to 56x20cm; opt. removable floor; optional porch; opt. centre pole drying rail;
    • $US864 https://www.mansfieldoutdoors.com/onyx-5-light-tent/
  • Nortent Norwegian hot tents
    • Nortent Koie 7
    • NORTENT Lavvo 4
      • 3.6m diam x 1.9m high 4 season single pole teepee style tent; 3.9kg $US760 excl. VAT ($US1130 for Extreme version) w/o the inner tent $US190-250 and w/o floor $US70; opt. carbon pole 250g lighter;
    • NORTENT Gamme 4
      • geodesic Dyneema 4 season design with 2 meshed doors for severe weather and heavy snow loads; 3.15m diam x 1.6m high; 5.8kg; $US1120 ($US1380 for Extreme version) excl. VAT w/o the inner tent $US190-270
  • OneTigris Rock Fortress teepee style
    • see OneTigris Rock Fortress teepee style Hot Tent
    • “6p (2 adults and 4 kids at a push)” 4 season tent; 3000mm 70D coated nylon; ground tensioners; 10 sides each with guy outs; centre zip double doors with quality zippers; snow skirt; two top vents;
    • no inner mesh and no floor; 3.8m diameter, 2.4m centre pole; 4.2kg; packs to 58*20*20CM; $US289
    • fire retardant siliconised removable stove jack which is near the centre pole so allows stove to be well away from tent material whilst providing a cooler chimney exit and more support to the chimney if you have not guyed it out
    • it is set up by:
      1. assembling the centre pole with the adjustable height section placed at the BOTTOM, while the pole bag is placed over the TOP of the pole to provide padding but also to provide a hanging point for the optional inner mesh tent
      2. pegging out the two door peg points on the windy side
      3. taking the centre pole under the tent from the other side and erecting the pole in position and pull the unpegged door out to stop it falling over and then pegging it in (you need to be carrying the 2 pegs!)
      4. peg out the rest of the tent and then the guy out points (it comes with 24 nice tri-blade short pegs)
      • TIP: if you know you can hang the centre of the tent from a branch (which wont fall on your head) or similar, then you can drastically save weight hiking by not taking the heavy centre pole
    • this tent is a great tent all year round, especially when mated with a mesh tent
    • opt. Half dome inner mesh tent 04 1.7kg; 3.3mx1.75m x 1.7m high; $US129
    • optionally, use a freestanding 2P mesh tent or even a 2P hiking tent without a fly (does not need to be freestanding as long as it can be set up without a fly)
  • King Camp Torino hot tent
    • 1.6m diam; 1-2P; tub floor; 5.4kg;
  • FireHiking 2-4P Hot tent
    • 3.5m x 2.1m high hexagonal teepee style with 2 large doors and snow skirt; 70D PU 3000mm; inner half mesh tent; 4kg;
  • 4.2m diag octagonal tipi single door with upper half mainly windows and high vents for central fire pit
  • 4.1m octagonal tipi triple stove jacks, 2 rear short awning doors, 1 main door with awning, 2 low vents:
  • 4m diam Pyramid Tent with 2 doors:
  • 4.4m Aricxi R5 upgraded octagonal tipi tent
  • Mceto 5m diam Pyramid Tent with 2 doors:
  • 5m long A-frame hot tent with side awning

Lightweight nylon tents

australia/tents_hot.txt · Last modified: 2023/03/25 12:55 by gary1
Donate Powered by PHP Valid HTML5 Valid CSS Driven by DokuWiki